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Post by wetpaint on Nov 28, 2006 22:36:44 GMT -5
The Bible talks about the “virgin birth” of Jesus Christ in Matthew 1:23-1:25, “Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son. ... Joseph ... knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son.” This is all good and well, except that it defies all basic human knowledge. A virgin cannot get pregnant. This just does not happen. Rather than taking this event at face value, and using to justify the existence of a so-called “Son of God,” why not search for a simpler, and far more likely, explanation for what happened. Mary was a young woman who had recently been married to Joseph. According to Matthew 1:18, she was apparently found to be pregnant sometime after her marriage to Joseph, but before she had slept with him. In our current day and age, this is called an affair, and is frowned upon in most major societies. Joseph would probably divorce her. However, not wanting the shame of going public with Mary’s unfaithfulness, Joseph decided to “put her away privily.” (Matthew 1:19) This is where Mary got her incredible idea. According to the Bible, an angel came down and explained to Joseph how Mary was impregnated by a Holy Spirit. However why should we believe something so far-fetched when a far more reasonable solution is so obvious? Mary didn’t want the shame that would come from publicly declaring that she had had an affair. So she came up with the greatest excuse mankind has ever witnessed: “God did it.” Back in an age when miracles and spirits were still completely accepted parts of culture, she crafted a story about her child being the Son of God. She didn’t have a dirty affair with any mortal, she slept with a Holy Spirit at his request. How could anyone refuse? In our day and age, this would be scoffed at, but back then it sounded plausible. Perhaps Joseph was even in on the story, as he wouldn’t have wanted to have been shamed by an affair either. Mary and Joseph probably had no idea how far-reaching this little lie would become. They could never have imagined that this child would grow up to become the most charismatic religious leader in history. One has to wonder whether Jesus himself believed these lies about his conception, or whether he merely used them for personal gain on purpose. If the same circumstances leading up to Jesus’s birth happened again today, he would probably be aborted. This may seem like a stretch to some people. But doesn’t it seem much more logical than that some all powerful being really did come down and cause a young woman to become pregnant? I dare anyone to find any factual evidence to disprove this theory.
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Post by Sgtpepper on Nov 28, 2006 22:43:56 GMT -5
Dude, I'm not even gonna get into religious discussions with you. Because it all boils down to this in these discussions: Atheists are cruel; Christians are defensive; Mormons are weird; Jews and Muslims are proud about their religion; Jehovah's Witnesses are annoying; And everyone else believes in spiritual enlightenment and world peace.
Religion (and being an atheist is religious) is like trying to say what cards are in a deck while only knowing your own hand.
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Post by wetpaint on Nov 28, 2006 22:50:55 GMT -5
Dude, I'm not even gonna get into religious discussions with you. You just know I'm right. Lol. ;D
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Post by wetpaint on Nov 28, 2006 22:52:06 GMT -5
Atheists are cruel; Christians are defensive; Mormons are weird; Jews and Muslims are proud about their religion; Jehovah's Witnesses are annoying That pretty much sums it up. Except I would add: "Atheists are cruel AND FUNNY." And then you would have it.
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Post by mauvais on Nov 29, 2006 11:09:10 GMT -5
Atheists are people who can't believe in themselves and they are so unsure of 'what to be' that they can't believe in anything.
If it was part of their 'culture' to believe in spirits and stuff then why was Jesus crucified when he actually did the miracles...
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Post by Sgtpepper on Nov 29, 2006 11:34:32 GMT -5
Yeah, but remember Wetpaint, it's not just Atheists who are funny, it's everyone, except for pissed off and defensive Christians. Seriously, though, you should read El Bible. Not 'cause of religion, but because you're theories ALMOST make sense. I'm still sticking with my card analogy, and personally, I like the hand I was dealt, I figure you do too.
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Post by wetpaint on Nov 29, 2006 11:41:23 GMT -5
Atheists are people who can't believe in themselves and they are so unsure of 'what to be' that they can't believe in anything. I believe in myself and my friends just fine. And that's all I believe in, because those people matter a lot more to me than some so-called "SON OF GOD" who has been dead for a bunch of years. If it was part of their 'culture' to believe in spirits and stuff then why was Jesus crucified when he actually did the miracles... How do YOU know he actually did any miracles, or even actually existed? Because it says so in some book?
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Post by wetpaint on Nov 29, 2006 11:42:22 GMT -5
Not 'cause of religion, but because you're theories ALMOST make sense. I know. This whole thing about Jesus just being the child from an affair.. It makes perfect sense, don't you think?
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Post by mauvais on Nov 29, 2006 16:16:54 GMT -5
i would love to hear something from sgtpepper that isn't subservient or influenced by wetpaint's bogus philosophies.
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Post by wetpaint on Nov 29, 2006 19:27:18 GMT -5
i would love to hear something from sgtpepper that isn't subservient or influenced by wetpaint's bogus philosophies. Wow, aren't we snippish today.
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Post by wetpaint on Nov 29, 2006 19:30:54 GMT -5
Atheists are people who can't believe in themselves and they are so unsure of 'what to be' that they can't believe in anything. I believe in myself and my friends just fine. And that's all I believe in, because those people matter a lot more to me than some so-called "SON OF GOD" who has been dead for a bunch of years. If it was part of their 'culture' to believe in spirits and stuff then why was Jesus crucified when he actually did the miracles... How do YOU know he actually did any miracles, or even actually existed? Because it says so in some book? And mauvais, you still haven't said what you think about the stuff I brought up here. Any opinions?
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Post by Sgtpepper on Nov 29, 2006 20:36:27 GMT -5
Mauvais, please speak normal English (you are freakishly like Josepha), I don't know what subservient means, and I'm too lazy to look it up.
Anyways, if you're saying Wetpaint has influenced me too much, he hasn't. I would rather not get pissed off at views I don't agree with. I don't agree with some things Wetpaint says, but I'm not going to force him to change his mind.
BTW Wetpaint: your views make sense with a second grade knowledge of the Bible and/or Christianity. Seriously, if I could gain your knowledge of that time period from a non-Christian point of view and give you my knowledge of it WITH a Christian view, I think we'd figure a lot of things out. Also, it has been proven that Jesus existed, his miracles, not so easy to prove. I prefer to take a not so literal translation of the Bible, where Jesus did some things that were inexplicable for that time period, so the people called them miracles (which they probably were akin to at that time). If Jesus is omnipotent then he would have all knowledge; therefore, if he came down and showed someone how to tune into their psychic abilities, it would seem like a miracle.
Hmmmmm, there was something else I wanted to say, oh well, must not have been too, important.
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Post by wetpaint on Nov 29, 2006 22:59:30 GMT -5
So basically what you are saying, sgtpepper, is that there is no proof at all that Jesus ever had any "magic powers" at all, but that you choose to believe that he did.... for.... SOME reason....
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Post by mauvais on Nov 30, 2006 16:01:37 GMT -5
he is saying that we don't know if anything ever happened. we don't know that he did miracles. we aren't sure at all about anything that happened before our birth or will happen after we die, but we do know that God has given us faith through what he's done now....what he's doing now....
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Post by wetpaint on Nov 30, 2006 18:09:40 GMT -5
he is saying that we don't know if anything ever happened. we don't know that he did miracles. we aren't sure at all about anything that happened before our birth or will happen after we die, but we do know that God has given us faith through what he's done now....what he's doing now.... And what IS he doing now?
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Post by mauvais on Nov 30, 2006 18:27:51 GMT -5
he's showing us his love for us by giving us the sun after a storm...or a cookie after a bad day...or a smile from a stranger....or the strength to live...
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Post by wetpaint on Nov 30, 2006 21:28:54 GMT -5
Why do we have to bring God into that? Just because we are happy, does that mean GOD had something to do with it? Or when we are sad, why did GOD do it? Why does everything have to be tied in with God? Isn't it enough just that we have these emotions?
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Post by Sgtpepper on Nov 30, 2006 21:41:48 GMT -5
You guys have my stance very mixed up.
I believe Jesus did miracles, miracles probably had a different definition back in those times.
Also, back to my not-so-literal interpretation of the Bible. It said God made all these different things on different days, go into specifics but it says on the sixth day humans were created and on the seventh day God rested. But, for an omnipotent being, how long is a day? It still might be God's seventh day, he still might be resting. This stance provides for the theory of evolution (if a "God day" is millions and millions of years). Once humans, destroy the planet He might go back to Monday and start all over.
Another theory I mulled over one afternoon was that God and his son Jesus were touring through many many planets. He created us had Jesus tell us some stuff and sent us on our way while he and Jesus moved on to creating another planet or perhaps universe, to be hospitable and to have Jesus do some work down there.
Just a thought. ;D
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Post by wetpaint on Nov 30, 2006 23:15:43 GMT -5
You guys have my stance very mixed up. I believe Jesus did miracles, miracles probably had a different definition back in those times. Also, back to my not-so-literal interpretation of the Bible. It said God made all these different things on different days, go into specifics but it says on the sixth day humans were created and on the seventh day God rested. But, for an omnipotent being, how long is a day? It still might be God's seventh day, he still might be resting. This stance provides for the theory of evolution (if a "God day" is millions and millions of years). Once humans, destroy the planet He might go back to Monday and start all over. Another theory I mulled over one afternoon was that God and his son Jesus were touring through many many planets. He created us had Jesus tell us some stuff and sent us on our way while he and Jesus moved on to creating another planet or perhaps universe, to be hospitable and to have Jesus do some work down there. Just a thought. ;D These are some of the most original ideas I have ever heard from a Christian. Much appreciated. I still disagree of course, but interesting thoughts indeed.
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Post by Sgtpepper on Nov 30, 2006 23:21:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the compliment. ;D If anything, I want to prove to you that Christians can be cool folks, you have the right to say whatever you want about my religion, but I might have to give you a Charlie horse for making fun of a PERSON 'cause o' their religion. I must admit, conservative, religious people can get a little bit sketchy.
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Post by chinchillathekilla on Dec 3, 2006 22:30:05 GMT -5
Atheists are people who can't believe in themselves and they are so unsure of 'what to be' that they can't believe in anything.
If it was part of their 'culture' to believe in spirits and stuff then why was Jesus crucified when he actually did the miracles... mauvais, the only reason you seem to be bashing Athiests is because they "don't know who or what they are", and because they dont believe in God give us some more substancial criticism
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Post by chinchillathekilla on Dec 3, 2006 22:31:54 GMT -5
Dude, I'm not even gonna get into religious discussions with you. Because it all boils down to this in these discussions: Atheists are cruel; Christians are defensive; Mormons are weird; Jews and Muslims are proud about their religion; Jehovah's Witnesses are annoying; And everyone else believes in spiritual enlightenment and world peace. Religion (and being an atheist is religious) is like trying to say what cards are in a deck while only knowing your own hand. i like that..... no religion is the "true" one, i think
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Post by wetpaint on Dec 5, 2006 19:54:13 GMT -5
no religion is the true one, i think Exactly, they are all pretty much equally LIES. ;D
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Post by chinchillathekilla on Dec 6, 2006 19:48:51 GMT -5
in a way, they are, but not always. like the card analogy sgtpepper gave us oh this will be an interesting question: what are YOUR views on what happens when you die, wetpaint?
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Post by Sgtpepper on Dec 7, 2006 19:44:35 GMT -5
Don't even ask Wetpaint about after death.
Trust me on this one.
BTW: I'm not saying that religions are lies, I'm saying that they're different perceptions, I have a song that say "We both have truths, are mine the same as yours?", I think truth is relative.
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